From: WEWoodsMPH Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 03:39:13 EDT Subject: Hawaii- Results of Legislator's Gay Prejudice and Propaganda Aloha Folks, It is now exactly 24 hours since I sent my last bulletin which highlighted the threats and new propaganda and statements from Rep. Robert McDermott - Hawaii State Legislator. The following is a list of responses from you. Received more than 60 responses, many of which were directed to Rep. McDermott directly to which he may or may not have replied. I think this is important because many of the oppressive actions of legislators are done in the dark of back-room deals. The oppression and put- downs by this legislator are now very visible. Maybe others will see the perpetuation of false statements which are the basis of the continued discrimination and disrespectful treatment of Gay Americans. Do good, William E. Woods, MPH ** This is what Rep, McDermott said: From: repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov (Rep. Bob McDermott) To: WEWoodsMPH@aol.com ('WEWoodsMPH') Bill, You should stop engaging in your deviant non-normal behavior. After all, that is exactly what Homosexuality is - - a behavior. Consider this, What happens to a child molester when he arrives at a Prison? He is systematically sodomized by the other inmates. Why? Is it a common genetic proclivity that all inmates share, or is it a behavior? Obviously, you know the answer. Please stop your crusade to destroy our society. Aloha and God Bless, Bob McDermott ** Rep. McDermott - Your Email to Bill Woods (quoted in full below) came to my attention as a result of its distribution across the queerlaw listserve. I appreciate it when an elected representative has sufficient courage in his convictions to commit his position to writing, even when I disagree with that position. Your comments, quoted in full below, betray a fundamental lack of understanding of the most basic concepts of psychology and the social science evidence concerning same sex sexuality. This evidence is not, by any means, new. The Kinsey study of American male sexuality, released in the 1940's, noted a distinction between "situational homosexuality" and erotic preferences that exist in the absence of contextual factors that affect choices made about sexual conduct. In the prison setting, where men are deprived of the option of heterosexual sexual intercourse, some inmates who would ordinarily be inclined to seek opposite sex sexual partners will satisfy their sexual desires with same sex partners. This does not make these men gay, but rather persons with heterosexual and/or bisexual orientations who choose to have sex with other men when the alternative is abstention. It is the situation of being deprived of heterosexual outlets that inform this pattern of behavior. The literature on sexual conduct has been greatly enriched since Kinsey. It is now common to distinguish between behaviors and orientations - and so in the lexicon of informed contemporary discourse in this area it is acceptable to distinguish between behavior (the things that people do), orientation (the desires that people have), and identity (the understanding that people have of themselves). The things that people do - in this case sex between consenting adults - is quite obviously a choice - for both heterosexuals and homosexuals. The orientations that people have - erotic desires - are not in any respected sense a matter of choice. And although identity is constructed, the process of construction is a complex process of self-awareness and understanding, and is not properly thought of as volitional (in the same way that we consider matters of conscience and religion to be volitional and subject to change, but not in any sense freely chosen - a person cannot choose, for example, to believe or disbelieve in a particular religion - authentic belief is a matter of faith rather than deliberate choice). Your reference to "deviant non-normal behavior" confuses these most basic concepts. The use of the term "deviant", in its clinical sense, is simply wrong if it is applied to same sex sexual conduct. The American Psychological Association removed homosexuality from its list of disorders back in the early 1970's. "Sodomy", as a behavior, is a very common form of sexual expression among heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. Anal intercourse is and historically has been a form of sexual expression in many cultures as an alternative form of birth control. Conversely, anal intercourse is not used as a form of sexual expression by many gay men, and is an uncommon form of sexual expression among lesbians. Oral sex is widely popular among heterosexuals and homosexuals, and is not considered "deviant" or "non-normal" in any of the respected psychological literature. Your use of the word "non-normal" is most telling indeed. Homosexuality is "non-normal" only to the extent that it is not an expression of the sexual desires held by a majority of the population. I would hope that you would not attribute the label of "non-normality" to a characteristic simply because it is a minority characteristic - that is the very essence of discrimination - to label something wrong simply because it is unpopular or unusual. At the turn of the century left-handedness was considered a signifier of normalcy, and left handed school children were frequently driven to psychological trauma because of their refusal to conform to the "norm" of right handedness. Today that prejudice seems silly, but it was not silly at all to the hundreds of thousands of young school children who had the wrists slapped by misguided teachers because they attempted to write using their left hands. Your use of the words "deviant" and "non-normal" are nothing other than value judgments - labeling a behavior minority and illegitimate at the same time. The underlying judgment - that the impugned behavior is "bad", springs from a prejudice that is non-clinical and unsupported by the social science evidence. The credible support for the judgment is "moral" and "religious", and not a product of research and evidence. This last point is the important one. Your judgment is a value judgment - a matter of conscience and religion, rather than an apt psychological or psychiatric assessment. The proper label to apply, therefore, to the statement that you are making, is simply that you believe the impugned conduct to be "wrong". I have used a great many words to draw the simple distinction between a value judgment between "right" and "wrong" and a clinical assessments of deviance and normality. Why? As an elected representative I hope you cherish the important values of freedom of conscience and freedom of religion, including the freedom of those who disagree with you, and with the majority, to hold their own beliefs and follow their own truths. Those principles are far more fundamental to the values of this country than are the forms of sexual expression chosen privately between consenting adults. You compromise these important political values of freedom and personal autonomy in pursuing your personally held moral views as matters of public policy. Finally - in respect to your rhetorical comment about "crusades" that will "destroy our society" - the only society that can be destroyed by respect for individual choices and minority expressions is a repressive and intolerant society. I do not believe that is the essence of American society, but if it ever becomes so then it deserves to be undermined and replaced with a tolerant and freedom-loving society. ** Dear Bill. Please tell Bob McDermott to go get a life! And, remind him that national police and law enforcement criminal reports, bear witness to the fact that the MAJORITY of men arrested for child molestation -are heterosexual. That is a FACT!! Keep up your good work, and be careful of the hate mongers-as they believe they act in defense of God! They are soooooo twisted. Hugs, ** To: Rep. Bob McDermott > Subject: Smell of homophobia reaches to the South Seas (response from New Zealand) > Bob- > I have read your Email to Bill Woods. Your knowledge of human sexuality is obviously limited. What respected journals have you read, to obtain the sophistication of your argument that homosexuality is 'behavior', based on situational homosexuality of prison inmates toward child molesters? You obviously know nothing of the difference between sexual orientation, identity and behavior, not to mention, logic and good reasoning. I would suggest employing one of the many good consultancy/training firms in the States to provide you with accurate > scientific information about human sexuality that does not start from a moral perspective based upon religious superstition. > God bless America, where any tom, dick or harry can become a powerful politician, irrespective of the ignorance and lack of formal training they bring to the job. > You give Americans a bad name, Bob. > Aloha and God Bless, *** William, Thank you for you constant updates as to what is occurring in Hawaii. There are many Christian, who happen to be gay/Lesbian/trans who are praying for you personally as well as the proceedings. Hold on to what is good and let go of what isn't God's Speed! *** TO: Rep. McDermott How did you get elected? You barely have a mastery of the language, and your conceptualizations of what may or may not exist are based on misinformation and outright lies. According to your "logic" then, heterosexuality is a learned behavior too. Are you saying that you had to learn to like intercourse with women? And if that's the case, what is your true sexual orientation. Are you hiding from yourself? If you and your wife ever engaged in any sexual encounter that did not have the possibility of conception, do you realize that you are a sodomite too, that is, one who engages in sodomy and therefore no different than your weak and farout analogy about prisoners and pedophiles. *** To: repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov (Rep. Bob McDermott) I am sorry you apparently don't see it as our forefathers did when they wisely separated Church and State. YOU are the one who are forcing YOUR dogma upon the me, a person who does NOT share YOUR religious beliefs. EVERY CITIZEN, under our Constitution is guaranteed Freedom OF Religion AND Freedom FROM Religion. I find some of the hetero sexual practices to be highly abnormal, but I don't go around interfering in those personal relationships or insulting them. I take it then, since you did not respond to my question about criminality, that you fully approve of the activities of STM98? In other words, in Religion the ends justify the means? It is curious that Religious Supremacists today share commonality with the KKK, Adolf Hitler and other radical elements, in that their chosen victims were EXACTLY the same. I also point out to you, the FBI Statistics which show that 96% of the pedophiles are HETERO, usually parents or relatives of the children. Further, it is curious that MOST of these documented molestations occur in a Fundamentalist or radical church environment. The David Koresh Case at Waco, Texas is a good example. There are many others. There is, I understand a PRIME COMMANDMENT of God's in your Bible which states very clearly and without equivocation: "Thou shalt NOT bear false witness against Thy neighbor." It is a commandment which radical extremists who call themselves "Christians" are the first to overlook, since the conduct they ascribe to homosexuals very often describes their own conduct. Perhaps by pointing fingers at others, they feel that some of the attention will be removed from their own misconduct. I should point out to you that I adopted and raised two boys who were orphaned. These children are not homosexual and have families of their own. I do not view MY children as sex objects and I wonder WHAT it is in the Religious Extremists' minds which causes them to make those projections unless they personally view THEIR children as sex objects. Further, not only am I a grandfather of four, but a great-grandfather too. In fact, my children and I looked after three children who were disowned by their Fundamentalist parents because they got AIDS when religious extremists were disseminating the propaganda that "only homosexuals get AIDS". Today, those children are buried outside on my son's mountaintop estate. Their parents, former Fundamentalists, now realize that bigotry and ignorance make a poor substitute for Religion, and that neither have a place in Christianity. Also, that what one wishes on another's child will often come back to damage one's own. It has been my personal observation (and experience) that people who are sexually healthy do not fear what someone else is doing in bed. Homosexuals don't feel threatened by what heteros do in bed. So obviously a hetero who feels threatened by homosexuals is questioning his or her own sexual orientation and fears it. THAT is why he/she feels threatened and is abusive. The one who is comfortable with his own orientation does NOT feel threatened in the least. I still would like to know about the STM98 and alleged election fraud before you evaded my question. I look forward to hearing from you. There are a number of people interested, including Australian media. Sincerely, Rep. McDermott's response to this note: Dear [XXX], Look, I got nothing against you personally. However, please do not force your beliefs on me, or the rest of society. You want me to legitimize an abnormal way of life. You want me to teach our children in school that Homosexuality is healthy, wholesome, viable alternative to traditional moral values. Homosexuality is clearly an unhealthy, deviant way of life. Homosexuals, like pedophiles, bisexuals, transsexuals, transvestites, and necrofiliacs chose their way of life. I support the right of these poor souls to access psychological counseling in order to get their lives straight - so to speak. Aloha and God Bless, Bob McDermott ** Representative Mc Dreamt, You should stop engaging in your deviant non-normal behavior while on state time. After all, that is exactly what Homophobia is - - a behavior, a learned one. A very hurtful behavior and it has no business in politics. How are you getting away with saying you represent the people, meaning all the people? I am enraged that you are a representative of this country. You have failed in your duty. You ask -What happens to a child molester when he arrives at a Prison? He is systematically sodomized by the other inmates. Why? - Maybe because this society has taught most men that they need to act a certain way. A way that is unnatural, seeped in old religious thought and heterosexually biased. Perhaps this makes homosexual relations the big evil for a straight man, rape being the ultimate shame. In other words men are taught to be oppressive. I find it quite disgusting that your use a prison situation as an example. Are we, the people to believe that you think a prisoner's behavior is a valid way to disclaim homosexuality? You are comparing a convicted criminal (a child molester?!!! Oh, by the way most child molesters are heterosexual) to a non-criminal member of society. It is called rape, whether in prison or not and how dare you compare that to consensual sex between two responsible adults. How does your mind work? Your oppressive values are scary. You ask- Is it a common genetic proclivity that all inmates share, or is it a behavior? In prison, it is behavior, I agree. And this society has breeded it and you encourage it. Get your politics out of our private lives and stop trying to bleed your religious and "higher than thou" values onto everyone else. I am middle America- heterosexual, married with two children. I work for the state of Colorado and pay my taxes. Your views do not represent most people I know or me. So now that you can't discount me as having a "homosexual agenda" (whatever that means), what other lame excuse will you use to discount me? You think your views are the majority? I guess I can't expect you to be in contact with all your constituents, just the religious ones who share your values. Your personal agenda is so obvious it is disgusting. You have abused your political power. Your letter to William E. Woods says to me-IMPEACHMENT. I say to you CIVIL RIGHTS, that is what you are supposed to be protecting as an elected official. But I guess it is not about us, it is about you, right? Please stop YOUR crusade to destroy our Society, further. **** to Rep. McDermott Dear Sir: I refer to your e-mail message to W.E. Woods, which has been forwarded to me. I have been following Mr. Woods journey through a succession of e-mails that he puts out for interested readers, of which I am certainly one. I understand that you are a representative of the people, sir, a representative of our government, and quite frankly I was perplexed by your e- mail. On the surface, it is fraught with statements that you make as if you are speaking scientifically, factually. You might review these statements in that light, for you would find them incorrect. However, from the tone, it seems they were made from an emotional standpoint, in which case, it would appear the statements were made purely to hurt and attack. If that were the scenario, then this would seem beneath you, sir, as a representative of the people, elected by such. I wonder if you realize that certainly and surely there must be at lease one Gay person that voted for you; undoubtedly more than one, sir. For instance, your reference to "child molesters" certainly makes no sense, in the context of your message - particularly since, factually (and you are welcome to check statistics on this) most child molesters are heterosexuals. Very few, in point of fact, turn out to be gay. But comparing such people to what Mr. Woods is doing just seems ignorant, non-sequitur, and at the very least, just mean-spirited. You must be very angry with him. It would seem that Mr. Woods is expressing his right as an American to fight for and stand up for what he believes is right, and for the rights of a certain disenfranchised group of Americans, and one must admire him for his tenacity and forthrightness. In fact, isn't that something that you were elected by the people to do for them? You seem to be putting someone down for the very ideals that you probably hold dear to your own heart. I would not call this behavior "deviant" and "non-normal" (what is "normal" anyway?) either in him, or in you, if you were trying to uphold the rights of your constituents. Sir, you are most probably an intelligent person - do you really believe, as you wrote, that Mr. Woods is on a "crusade to destroy our society?" I actually had to laugh at that one. Your closing remark - "God Bless" was a little sad, in light of what you had written before that. I can only imagine the true thoughts that were going through your mind as you wrote them. But then, that's between you and the Blessed Creator. Best regards... ** Bill, I got a response from Bob McDermott. Sorry but he strikes me as someone that I wouldn't want to know even remotely and a two faced politician who has the tact of a rhino in heat. I doubt that he evens knows that he insulted me in his response. Take care, From: Rep. Bob McDermott [SMTP:repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov] > To: > > Thank-you for your input. I know Bill personally and have always treated him with respect and dignity. > That being said, I feel that it is entirely appropriate to share my views with him via a personal e-mail. It was not intended for mass distribution. > > One thing about Liberals, when they can't win the argument they engage in name calling. > > Aloha and god Bless, > Bob McDermott ** Subj: Who is the deviant here! To: repmcdermott@Capitol.hawaii.gov Dear Representative McDermott I was recently outraged by your response to Bills Woods exposure of the Mormons political campaigning against same-sex marriages. Your response to him (which he kindly circulated to everyone) was the sort of bigoted diatribe that one would expect from the ill-informed, simple folks of your society, but not something one would expect from an elected representative. All he was doing was presenting a bunch of factual information, something you branded as deviant behavior. But then you probably consider any thinking that differs from your narrow-minded view of the world as deviant. And as usual, you bigots have to invoke the image of the child molester in your pathetic response. Why don't you try sticking to the issues raised in Bill Wood's Email instead of resorting to bigoted personal attacks. Of course the answer is that on any fair reading of the issues you don't have a leg to stand on. You should try having a little respect for human beings instead of ramming your bible down our throats all the time. Yours angrily ** Rather interesting that Rep. McDermott doesn't seem to know the difference between the behaviors of sex and rape. He doesn't know much about prisons, either. Child molesters are announced to the other prisoners by the guards, accidentally put in the wrong cell, but usually removed before they are killed. This is an interesting behavior by men who feel they need to adopt some of society's norms. This is an exceedingly interesting behavior by guards who prefer to let George do it. ** Hi Bill, What a bunch of shit, eh? I've been following your (and Martin's) posts and have read most of the recent articles in the Honolulu Church-Bulletin. Your investigation sure is shaking 'em up - great work! Sorry I've been so out of touch lately - I've had to attend to my business. Take care and hang in there, ** Representative McDermott, How disappointing that you should send the Email shown below and fulfill the stereotype of a self-centered, over-generalizing politician. Mr. Woods is doing what we all do every day of our lives - believe in what we feel to be right. To attack him for his beliefs and who he is, as you have done, is no better than those who participated in the Inquisition or the Holocaust. If you continue to consider yourself a public servant as a State Representative may I suggest that you keep your snide remarks where they will serve your purpose, within the system of government - not sending personally attacking and petty Email. Sincerely, ** One humorous note that you may know about but which might lighten your day: One of the Republican gubernatorial candidates in South Carolina has called for getting homosexuals out of farming. It seems that "American Christian values have encouraged farming." It seems that homosexuals will destroy American farming unless farming can be protected. Wonder about all of those straight boys whose first sexual experience was with a sheep! ** You may have read in the last year about the City of Chicago's desire to do some public works improvements on North Halsted Street, which is the center of our gay and lesbian community. Included in the plans were monumental architecture to recognize the contributions of gay and lesbian citizens and business owners. I was the person the Mayor chose to run the project, and I, too, got hate mail (7,000 pieces) and sufficient death threats to warrant police protection of my home and bodyguards at our public hearings. The only thing I can write to you is that as fearful as it is, and angering and all the other emotions that I am sure you are feeling, it is going to be worth it when you are finally done and we finally win. We won in Chicago, it was a fight that took over a year of political organizing and media management. So, I am just writing to say good for you for fighting for our rights and your beliefs and don't let the assholes get you down. ** To:WEWoodsMPH It is too bad that not only do Mormons not know their own history, they excommunicate those who reveal it. If you have not read Michael Quinn's Same- Sex Dynamics in 19th Century America, the Mormon Experience, I highly recommend it. Joseph Smith sealed male couples! Not to mention lots of other things in their history. Sad that our religions too often try to hide what was because of contemporary attitudes. Good luck, ** Representative McDermott; One might assume that in replying directly to Mr. Woods' comments, you would address the issues at hand... Possibly even ONE of them. Instead, you chose to malign and attack an individual about which you clearly know nothing, while avoiding any relevant issues altogether. How dare you draw a comparison between a private citizen attempting public discourse and a child molester in prison. You are a public servant, and more, MUCH more, is expected of you. You should be ashamed of yourself. ** From former judge: Bill..You might inform the jackass from wherever that it is the straight individual who is predominately the child molester and not Gays.. further during the 7 years I was on the [XXXX ]court bench not once did I have a case involving a Gay individual who had molested any child. They were all "straight and god fearing Christians". **