Subject: Shelly Roberts Interview by Elizabeth Elkins
From: "Shelly Roberts" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 10:46:46 +0000

The following is submitted as an unsolicited feature to glbt papers by
Elizabeth Elkins at the usual rates. Elizabeth can be reached at
[email-masked] to confirm or set arrangements. Thanks.

****************************************************

Righting the Rules
by Elizabeth Elkins	

Exclusive Interview With Shelly Roberts, author of Roberts' Rules of
Lesbian Dating, Roberts' Rules of Lesbian Living Daily Calendar, 1999,
Spinsters Ink.

Shelly Roberts writes the rules. That rule-writing is quickly making
the Atlanta resident a lesbian icon. Her three book series "Roberts'
Rules of Dating" (published by Spinsters Ink) is a popular seller at
gay and lesbian bookstores across the nation. 

It's no wonder. The rules are not only witty and funny - they're also
true. 

What began as a consistently clever column has parlayed into a 
collection of one-line proverbs for the lesbian nation. She is no
stranger to humor writing - she has written other funny books such as
"The Dyke Detector" and "Hey, Mom, Guess What!". But that's not all
she does. Roberts is currently planning what she calls the "largest
rainbow community musical event ever staged", The Rainbow Celebration
Concert set for October of the Year 2000.

Roberts recently spoke with me about the trials and tribulations of
being much more than a rule writer.

Elkins: Why do you write The Rules?

Roberts: Lesbians seem to believe that we have borrowed everything
from some place else. That we aren't entitled to a culture of our
own, even though we have created one daily since the dawn of
orientation. The entire Roberts' Rules Series is about establishing
that we do indeed have a culture, and that we have our own rules 
(although unwritten until I scribbled some of them down). One of 
those areas where we still haven't acknowledged our uniqueness is in 
the whole arena of dating. We still see it as a boy-girl carryover 
from high school. 

No wonder we all look confused when people ask us in couples "which
one is the boy?" We're not sure either. (And the answer is NOT the
butch-er of the two in the couple.) We're not sure because we don't
really play by those rules, because they don't fit us. But we don't
really know yet what other choices we have. So the Rules of Dating was
a natural in this series.

Elkins: Tell me about your history as a writer.

Roberts: When I was two or three, my parents used to take my sister
and me for rides in the countryside in Los Angeles on Sunday. Way back
when Orange County, California really had orange groves in it. They
tell me that I would stand up on the back seat, look out the window,
and make up poems about what I saw. Sounds like a truly annoying
little kid to have in your Sunday car, but there I was. I love words.
I have always loved words. I have lived by my wits and my words
forever. I started out as an advertising copywriter, and grew up to be
a creative director, and yes, you have seen some of my ads, and, no, I
won't tell you which ones. Then somewhere in my mid 40's, with a
billion or two word vocabulary, and a wicked sense of humor, I decided
to turn my attention to our communities. I had previously written
humor works about computers, about business, and about the women's
movement. The Rainbow community was a natural evolution, and finally,
my willing, laughing friends and audience.

Elkins: Tell me about the writing process. Is it all from personal
experiences?

Roberts: I can only tell you that I love to HAVE written. (Past
tense.) The process itself isn't painful. It's the long rev down the
runway before takeoff that's the painful part. Once I've a keyboard
under my hands, it's easy. But clearing the thousand demanding details
in the pathway, including that little teeeeeeeeny, (and getting
teenier) voice that says "writing hurts" is the hard part. Is it
personal? Yes. Absolutely. In the sense that anything written must
come from the personal observation, experience or interpretation. But
no, it isn't all personal experience. 

Many who have read my column for years really think they know me
because I put a lot of personal experience into that, but I use what I
have of personal experience only to make a larger, more cosmic, and
sometimes funnier, community point. I think it would be really boring
to only be talking about myself all the time. And, in fact, I do know
one woman who, after reading my writing, decided that she could do at
least as well, and started a personal experience column of her own.
She only talked about herself and what happened to her, and never got
the part that it had to have some relevance to the real lives of other
people, and she isn't writing it any more. 

When I do the rules books, I do lean heavily on my personal experience
and observations. But I don't think my personal reach is long enough.
Sometimes I'll throw out some open-ended questions to the lesbian
Internet. Sometimes I'll ask for a panel of lesbians willing to talk
about their own experiences. I want to throw as wide a net as possible
in the books, and usually that happens. So that if page 37 and 91
don't exactly apply to you in any given book, then probably page 26
and 67 will. 

Somewhere you should be able to see a piece of your life mirrored in
my work. That's not because I think I'm good enough or observant
enough to be able to tell you what your life looks like, but rather,
that there just aren't enough mirrors with lesbian reflections in
them. So if I can offer up just one more, than that's another place
where we can see who we are, and what we are up to. It takes a whole
lot of mirrors to dismantle an abomination self-image. And until we
deconstruct that one for ourselves, our lives can never model
themselves as fully and convincingly normal and normative for anyone
outside the Elkins. Seems a lot to ask of 150 one liners, but the
surprising thing to me, and apparently a lot of critics and
nay-sayers, is that it's been working.

Elkins: What is your favorite place to go on a date? 

Roberts: Date? Date? Since I started working on the concert, I became,
unintentionally, a theoretical lesbian. So I have to answer this from
theory. And good memory. 

And the answer is: (Ta Da!) Home Depot. 

Or as my good friend Jim calls it: Homo Depot. You can learn a lot
about a woman from walking through a hardware store with her.

Elkins: What is the worst thing a lesbian can do on a date?

Roberts: Talk about her ex. The end. Unless the other half of the date
is still bereft and still in mourning, and gets equal time to talk
about her ex. Then you will both be bored only half of the time.

Elkins: What is the most important rule?

Roberts: It isn't a funny one. The funniest/truest, of course is the
one I've started all three books with: 

It is never a good idea to marry anyone BEFORE the first date. 

A very lesbian concept because we never actually date anyone we don't
already believe we'd like to live with through eternity. 

Boy-girls use dating to find out if they want to spend more time
together. We use dating to find out which one of us is willing to pack
the toaster in a cardboard box and leave it in the garage. 

But the most important rule is that we are each of us just fine. And
that just being lesbian isn't sufficient evidence to condemn us for
anything.

Elkins: What do you do in your free time?

Roberts: Free time!? You've got to be kidding, right? I came to
Atlanta to create out of vision and belief, the largest rainbow
community musical event ever staged, The Rainbow Celebration Concert,
in October of the Year 2000, to celebrate the successes of the "Gay
90's." I am putting  and have put all my energy and all my resources
into it. I've said I will invest everything I have right down to the
day before I have to share the tinned tuna with the cats to make this
happen. I am doing what small side advertising work is necessary
during the three years I've committed to making this happen. I'm
living in the wing of someone else's house to keep my expenses down.
And attempting a highwire act of unprecedented proportions. 

In whatever "free" time I might have, I huddle small in a corner
babbling "What are you, NUTZ?!" 

Then I get over that, because it's counter-productive, and I call
another person to come help make this fantasy a reality. 

I really believe that it's time for us to stop and pay tribute to
ourselves and each other. It's time to stop gnawing at each other
because the biggest, most common enemies are mostly on the decline.
It's time to listen to our own music and celebrate ourselves and what
we've done. Even if you never did a single political thing in your
life. Then it's time to come celebrate what others did so you could
live your life in some way that didn't include getting beaten up for
daring to be with who you love. 

Free time! What a concept! I recently learned accidentally, and after
it had been corrected, that I probably had only about a year to live
under some current medical circumstances I don't want to get into.
Fortunately, the universe took care of that, and it isn't an issue any
more. But if you really want to bring yourself up short on what you
are doing with your life, try having someone tell you THAT tasty bit
of information. I probably wouldn't have lived to attend my own
concert. So now, none of my time is free. 

After October, 2000, I'm hoping, however, once again to have some
diversional time, and plan to stop being a theoretical lesbian. 

Elkins: How did the books get published?

Roberts: This whole series was a marketing idea that, fortunately hit
a nerve, or a funny bone, with its audience. I was at the American
Booksellers Convention, promoting my other humor books and noticed
that there wasn't an impulse book for lesbians. (You know, the
cheap/cute little
won't-fall-off-the-toilet-tank/won't-break-the-budget book at the
counter)  though there were several for gay men. 

I offered it to my then current publisher, but she she gave new
meaning to the words "small press," and couldn't afford to take on
another book. So I wrote to another lesbian publisher and did about 75
one-line rules to show what I had in mind. It was an inexpensive book
to produce and Spinsters Ink's wonderful Publisher, Joan Drury, said
"do it." 

Now we're on the third, and there's even a ROBERTS' RULE A DAY
CALENDAR for 1999. What a hoot. Look, Ma, I'm a Calendar! (And she
never thought I'd amount to anything! Ha!)

If you also mean "How do other lesbians get published?" all I can say
is practice and persistence. I have another book that I've been
working on for four years because I thought it was a good idea and I
hoped a mainstream press would get it. They didn't, and I almost gave
up, but I made one last try, and after four years of being persistent
"BABY DYKES" (baby pictures of famous and garden variety lesbians, and
one straight lady) will be published by Alyson in 2000, to coincide
with the Rainbow Celebration Concert. 

If you believe that you can, you can. 

THAT is the ultimate Roberts' Rule.